NLRB Transcript:
Wynn vs. the Dealers
Next week, the state labor commissioner will hear and decide whether dealers from the Wynn Las Vegas resort get to keep their tips or have to share them with floor personnel and management. The issue of the tip-sharing policy instituted by Steve Wynn Sept. 1, 2006 is at the heart of that case and was an integral part of a 2007 National Labor Relations Board unfair labor practices case brought against Wynn by dealers Cynthia Fields and Tynisia Boone and the Transportation Workers Union, their collective bargaining agent.
Ultimately, Wynn was found in violation
of the National Labor Relations Act by a
federal judge. In making his decision,
Administrative Law Judge Burton Litvack
based his findings on the testimony of
four aggrieved dealers – Fields, Boone,
Tramel McKenzie, and Kanie Kastroll. For
the hotel, three dealers testified –
Keith
Gazda, Ljilj Cerovina, and Thomas Golly
– while William Westbrook, the hotel’s
director of casino operations and Andrew
Pascal, president of Wynn Las Vegas,
also testified as did Wynn.
All were present at a midday October 30
meeting where Wynn, who was not expected
to attend but invited himself at the
last minute anyway, discussed new hotel
policy and discontent among dealers over
the new tip-sharing program. While
Litvack was not impressed with any of
the dealer’s statements and
recollections, he was particularly
critical of Wynn, saying, “Wynn...
exhibited a haughty and insolent
attitude while testifying, and, as a
result, did not impress me with his
demeanor. In particular, I note his
sardonic and disingenuous testimony...”
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The following text is a partial record of the verbatim account of testimony given by witnesses to Litvack during the five days of interviews he conducted in July and August 2007 in Las Vegas. Material in (parentheses) are notes, asides and other complementary information to the case while information in [brackets] represents explanatory words and [[double brackets]] and ((double parentheses)) surround actual bracketed or parenthetical material in the record. —October 30, 2006 Meeting and Respondent’s Alleged Unfair Labor Practices Attributed by Steven Wynn …As they entered, the employees were instructed to sit in seats, arranged around a conference table located in the center of the room, and the management officials sat in chairs along the walls. The last person to enter the room was Steven Wynn, and he arrived, |
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sporting a set of vampire teeth, which had been given to him by a grandchild as Halloween was the next night, in order to establish a light mood for the meeting...
All witnesses agreed that Wynn made
several opening remarks and then fielded
questions and comments from the
employees to which he replied. Four
dealers testified on behalf of the
[plaintiff parties]. First, Fields
testified that Wynn’s opening speech
lasted “approximately” 15 minutes and
that he began, saying “ ...I know that
everybody here is upset about the tip
situation. He said that people are
talking about it in the break room and
he said it had to stop... It is not
going to change. I know several of you
have hired attorneys and I have nine
attorneys of my own and they all say
this is not going to change. I have them
all on my side.
And he
said he checked with the labor
commissioner and he is
correct.” Continuing, Wynn said “we all
need to become a family again” and
mentioned he had spoken to union
organizers in Macau. After he explained
to them that [the hotel’s] supervisors
were earning less than the dealers, they
thought his solution was a great idea.
Then, Wynn (At various times while he
spoke, Wynn would stand up, sit back
down, and stand up again) changed the
subject to that of union representation,
saying “the only thing a union can do
for you is allow you to strike,” and
mentioning the valet parking employees
at the Golden Nugget Hotel,
who had voted to select representation
by a union— “ ...all it did for them was
allow them to strike and subsequently
they all lost their jobs.”
He added, “...those poor guys were represented by the union and now they all lost their jobs and are still trying to get their jobs back, but they were all permanently replaced.” Wynn next mentioned the dealers at the Frontier Hotel “...and said look what happened to them... They went on a strike and they are still striking.” He added that those dealers’ strike was “definitely prolonged” and they “... didn’t get anything out of it other than being allowed to strike.” Wynn then took questions, and the first employee to speak was Thomas Golly.
Referring to the team leads, “he said
that [[they]] should have been handled
differently ...that there were many,
many people ...applying for the jobs and
they could have given [[them]] a raise
...paid from the casino.” He added that
this would have made the team leads
happy and that what really made them
unhappy was the thought of having to
work six days a week at the Wynn Hotel.
When Golly finished, Wynn said to him,
“’don’t speak about thing[s] you know
nothing about because you have no idea
what you’re talking about,’” and, at
this point, he “...slammed his fist on
the table and said ‘do not talk about
anything that you know nothing about.’”
Wynn added that [the hotel] was not being able to hire floor supervisors off the street and, pointing to Arte Nathan, “...said we are having trouble hiring supervisors, right.” Nathan replied, saying “...yes, quality supervisors.” Golly replied that he owned stock in [the hotel], “so he does have an interest in how the casino does. Next, according to Fields, she spoke, saying that she had left a supervisor job at the MGM Hotel after having accumulated five weeks vacation “and that if I had known ...I was going to come here and I was going to have money taken away ...or nothing I had done, I ...possibly would not have made the change.”
Continuing, she said that she was a single mother with a one and half year old son and that losing $15,000 to $20,000 a year was a “huge financial burden on myself.” Wynn replied, saying “...if $15,000 to $20,000 a year makes that big of a difference in your life then you are doing something wrong.” Fields responded, “...I probably would not have bought an additional property. I said this has really made a very big strain on me financially. ...That’s when [Wynn] got extremely angry and got into my face approximately three to five inches [[away]] and said, ‘if you think you have financial troubles now, if you picket, you will be automatically terminated.’” (According to Fields, Wynn made this asserted threat “leaning over me” so that “...I could feel the spit on my face from his mouth.”
She also recalled that, while Wynn spoke, she had a water bottle on the table in front of her and that, “...as he was talking with his hands, he knocked the bottle of water right into me.” During cross-examination, Fields admitted that, to her, being fired and being permanently replaced meant “the same thing.”) According to Fields, as she was on the verge of crying, during the next ten minutes, she concentrated upon composing herself and not upon what Wynn was saying, and the next exchange she remembered was Wynn asking “...what can we do to make things better for you here aside from giving you back the tips because that’s not going to happen.
We need to become a family again. ...He said that we can make over $400 million he would be happy to share it with us.” At this, she again spoke, saying that since the dealers made only $6.15 an hour, could they be given a regularly scheduled raise each year? Thereupon, Wynn “...lashed back at me and said ‘don’t take me for a dope and don’t put words in my mouth.’” Tynisia Boone... testified that, after finding his seat, Wynn said “he had a couple of things that he would like to discuss with the dealers ...first he started with the tip issue.
He said the tip issue would not change. It was a business decision ...and he [[knew]] that we’re upset about it, but he had no other choice ...to redistribute [[the dealers’ tips]] thorough his management ...because he had a problem hiring help.” Then, referring to the lawsuit, which had been filed regarding the redistribution of their tips, Wynn said that he would not pay “a dime for the lawsuit” and that he would win in court. He added that he had “30,000 applicants for dealer jobs, 'and if you guys don’t like my tip pooling arrangements, you can leave. You can quit'.”
Continuing, Wynn turned to the subject of unions, saying “...‘and if you join [a] union, I can by law replace all 600 of you, and if you picket you will be automatically terminated because those are my sidewalks.’”(She described Wynn as screaming, gesturing wildly, standing up, sitting down, standing up, sitting down. And his hands were everywhere” to the extent that “he knocked a water bottle off the table.”) Boone recalled that, at one point, Wynn mentioned the Golden Nugget Hotel, saying “...that he an incident with the valet guys ...and they wanted to go on strike so he permanently replaced them. He exercised his right and permanently replaced them and they did not return to work.” Finally, “[Wynn] said that the union would get us into trouble and it was not good for us.”
Wynn next solicited questions, saying
there would be no repercussions. Thomas
Golly was the first employee to speak,
and he said there were other ways [the
hotel] could have helped the hiring
situation for team leads without
affecting the dealers’ tips and, as [the
hotel] had over 50,000 applicants for
jobs, how could there be a problem. To
this, Wynn, who had been sitting,
suddenly became “very loud and irate,”
stood up, and said “...I am the most
powerful man in Nevada. My name is on
top of the building. I can do whatever
it is that I want to do and I can run my
business any way I want to run it. If
you guys have a problem with the way I
am handling things, you can leave.”
After Golly, Cynthia Fields spoke and
“...told [Wynn] that she has to sell one
of her houses because of the 20 percent
decrease in her tips.” In response, Wynn
stood up and started screaming. “He said
if you think you have money problems
now, if you join [[a]] union, if we
picket, we will be automatically
terminated. And then he started getting
up and down and slamming his hand and
fist on the table.” He then repeated he
was the most powerful man in Nevada,
pointed to Fields’ face, and told her “
...if you guys vote [a] union in, you
will be automatically terminated. And if
you think you have money problems now...
He said that he could put no tipping on
the table.
It was his right to [[do so]]... have us drop the tips and place us on salary and keep the tips for himself.” (Asked to describe what Wynn did while answering Fields, Boone said “she was sitting right next to him... And she made the comment she had to sell one of her houses and that really upset him... He started pointing and screaming and basically spitting in her face.” According to Boone, Wynn had moved so that his face was no more than “a foot” from her face because “they were sitting very close together.”) Then, Golly spoke again and told Wynn that he couldn’t do anything about this because “that’s illegal." Boone believed Golly was referring to Wynn’s comment that he could deny tips to the dealers.
During cross-examination, she said that Wynn said this was “something that he could do if we were to join a union.”) Wynn responded “...that his name was on the building ...and he can do anything he wants to do.” According to Boone, at this point, she had become so scared that she had to leave the room and go to a restroom, (Westbrook corroborated Boone that she left the room at one point.) and, when she returned, Wynn had already finished speaking. Tramel McKenzie testified that Wynn sat in a chair toward the middle of the conference table (McKenzie confirmed that another dealer had been sitting in the chair in which Wynn eventually sat) and began speaking, saying “...that there is a problem ...around the casino, the atmosphere around the casino is no good.”
He identified the problem as being the “tip pool” and the dealers’ complaint that money had been taken from them by [the hotel]. He said he understood that the dealers were very angry, but the there had been a great difference between what the floor supervisors and the dealers had been earning. He said this situation was causing a problem in staffing the casino with floor supervisors. Wynn added that tips were as high as they were because his name was on the side of the building, and he was the most powerful man in Nevada. “He said that... it was a business move... and ...we were making too much money and he had to do something about it.”
Then, Tom Golly “...told him that word around town was that you are not paying your supervisors enough money and that you work them too hard.” At this, Wynn became “very upset’” slammed his hand down on the table, asked Golly what he meant, and said the problem was he could not get any supervisors to come and work for him because of the money. Then, Cynthia Fields spoke, saying that, if she had known of the changed tips practice, “ ...‘I wouldn’t have left the MGM to come over here to work to have money taken out of my pocket and lose vacation time.’ ...“Wynn looked at Fields and replied, (McKenzie recalled Wynn pointing at Fields with his finger no more than two or three inches from her face. ) “...You think you have money problems now? I assure you, if you bring in [[a]] union ...you will all be terminated.’”
He added that “...‘[[a union]] will not
help you,’” and “...‘if you vote the
union in, all 600 of you guys will be
replaced.’” Continuing, Wynn first
mentioned the valet parking employees at
the Golden Nugget Hotel, saying “...they
had formed a union and they [[were all
fired]]. The union didn’t do anything
for them." During cross-examination,
McKenzie contradicted herself, agreeing
that Wynn said, after the employees had
gone on strike, they all had been
replaced.”) Then he pointed to the
dealers at the Frontier Hotel and said
that “...they picketed for years and
nothing has happened over there.”
Further, Wynn mentioned that he had the
right to take away tips and could
prohibit them entirely and the tips were
really his money because the money was
going into drop boxes under the tables.
(The witness was certain that Wynn
mentioned withholding the tip money
“...when he was talking about unions.”)
Finally, Wynn told the employees that they were free to organize for a union but that his mind was made up. He added that the only real leverage a union has is to call a strike and that if a union calls a strike, he has the right to permanently replace those employees. He said that if the 600 dealers struck, he would permanently replace the strikers and that there were plenty of people in Las Vegas who wanted their jobs. Kanie Kastroll testified that Wynn began with a “kind of propaganda spiel” about the controversy surrounding the dealers’ tips pool, stating that [the hotel’s] decision to give a percentage share to the team leads had to do with the disparity between the floor supervisors’ pay and the tips income earned by the dealers— “...I’m not going to change it” and “I’m not giving you back your tips.” He then invited questions from the dealers.
Tom Golly spoke first, asking why [the hotel] did not pay any increase in wages for the team leads out of its profits and why did the team leads’ pay increase have to come out of the dealers’ tip money? Wynn replied that he did not want to discuss the subject any longer, that he was not going to give their tips back to the dealers, and that, if they did not cease complaining, he could implement a no tipping policy in the casino. According to Kastroll, Golly and Wynn continued to speak back and forth, with Wynn becoming “angry and frustrated” that Golly was continuing to pursue the subject.
At one point, Golly asked why Wynn had decided not to pay the team leads out of the record profits, about which Wynn previously had bragged. This caused Wynn to stand up, “...and you could see . ..spit flying out of his mouth and a lot of pointing ... he started belittling Tom because Tom had all these ideas.” Wynn said “...oh, you think you’re so smart. You know everything. You’re so smart. You have all the answers.” Cynthia Fields then spoke, saying the new tip policy would result in her losing $15,000 a year in income. To this, Wynn replied by “mocking” her, saying it wasn’t much money to lose. (Asked about Wynn’s conduct while he spoke to Fields, Kastroll said “he was seated next to her. And he would stand up and then ...sit down and yell. He pounded the table.”
At one point, Wynn was “...leaning forward toward her” until he was “under a foot” from her,”) At one point, according to Kastroll, either with a hand or a fist, Wynn “slammed the table” so that everyone heard it. Kastroll, who worked as an in-house organizer for the Transport Workers Union, further testified Wynn also told the employees “that he understood that we were starting to talk or the topic of a union was coming up amongst the dealers... “He said “that the union is just trying to take your money for dues. Your lawyers are trying to take your money. They’re all trying to take your money. They’re all lying to you. It’s all about the money. They want your money.” He added that “...[[unions are]] only good for ...leverage. Leverage or striking. That’s all they’re good for. Striking is your only leverage.”
Further, “...he said look at when I had
the Golden Nugget downtown. Those
...young valet boys there, there about
40 of them ...wanted to strike. They
were talking about strikes. And so he
ended up calling some union
representatives” and asked what they
were doing to those “poor boys.”
According to Wynn, the valet parkers
“persisted” in striking, and he ended up
“firing” them— he “...terminated about
40 of them.” Then, “...he told
us...‘when you dealers strike, you will
be permanently terminated.’” (This
remark upset Kastroll because she had
been a long-time union member. She added
that she was “stunned” by and “in shock”
over what Wynn said, and “I couldn’t
believe that he had the audacity to say
that because I ...had known it was
illegal.”
During cross-examination, Kastroll said
she understood the meaning of the words
“permanently replaced” and equated them
to “fired.” However, she insisted that
Wynn’s words on October 30 were
“permanently terminated.”) Finally, “I
remember he was saying he was the most
powerful man in either Vegas or
Nevada... You don’t mess with me.” At
this point, Kastroll interjected that
Wynn previously had spoken to the
dealers, telling them to make all the
money they could and I’ll make all the
money with you. We’ll roll it in
wheelbarrows... And I told him that the
dealers were the most valuable...”
employees because of their “interaction”
with the guests.
Wynn did not directly answer her comment; rather, he continued saying there existed a “disparity” between the dealers and the supervisors. Three dealers, who were present, testified on behalf of [the hotel]. Kieth Gazda testified that Wynn spoke first, saying he wanted to address an issue, which was causing “resentment” amongst the dealers—the tips sharing program which had recently been initiated. Wynn said affording the team leads each a percentage share had been implemented because of [the hotel’s] difficulty in hiring supervisors, and Arte Nathan said something in support. Then, he said he wanted the employees to speak “openly” and no one would be reprimanded for what he or she said.
Tom Golly spoke first and said he didn’t
believe [the hotel] was having problems
with hiring supervisors and didn’t
believe that was the reason for the
change in the tipping program. Wynn
replied “...that was the reason ...to
correct the disparity in income levels
to make the floor position more
attractive. Then, Golly and Wynn engaged
in a five minute dialogue, which was
“not heated” but “maybe the emotion
level was elevated some... “ Next, he
remembered Cynthia Fields commenting
that the new arrangement caused
“financial hardships” for the dealers
and that she had recently started a
family and had purchased a house and
would face financial issues.
While Gazda could not recall exactly, he
believed Wynn said that he was
“surprised” that the new policy would
lead to such financial problems for
someone but that the policy would remain
as instituted. According to Gazda, Wynn
next raised the subject of unions,
mentioned the Teamsters Union, and
derogatorily said that “...the only
reason for unionization is that you get
the right to ‘carry a stick.’” Wynn then
related what occurred at the Golden
Nugget Hotel when the valet parking
employees lost their jobs because of a
threatened work stoppage. Also, while he
could not recall the context, Gazda
remembered Wynn saying something about
“doing away with tipping” but such was
not a “practical” possibility.
Finally, while recalling that Wynn did knock over a water bottle when he struck the table with his hand, Gazda could not recall Wynn continually standing up and sitting down, sticking his face close to Fields when addressing her, or uttering the words terminated, permanently terminated, or permanently replaced. Ljilj Ana Cerovina testified that Wynn began talking, saying that he didn’t want dealers speaking about tips being taken from them; that he did not like the rampant rumors; and that no one could trust anyone else. He said the dealers should be happy because they were earning “good money.”
Then, a dealer named Tom spoke and tried to give Wynn “advice” on how he should handle things, “...and Steve told him that he was wrong, actually.” Arte Nathan interjected that no one wanted to do the floor supervisor job because it did not pay enough, and Tom replied that the reason no one wanted the job was the great amount of overtime. Then, Wynn and Tom spoke back and forth “a little bit louder” but not yelling at each other. Next, Cynthia Fields said many people with houses and cars had not expected this new tips sharing arrangement and it was “tough” with possibly losing money. Wynn replied that he “...was going to look into the bonus program and see if he can do anything about that.”
(Cerovina, who sat next to Fields, did
not believe Wynn leaned into Fields as
he spoke.) Also, while recalling Wynn
speaking about unions and saying “he
didn’t like the idea of us unionizing,”
Cerovina could not recall him mentioning
anything about the Golden Nugget Hotel.
She recalled that Wynn did gesture with
his hands “maybe a little bit” and,
after saying she could not recall him
banging a
hand down on the table, recalled “he did
one time” but it was “not really loud.
He was just talking about something ...I
think it was about union. He was talking
about he don’t want us to do that...”
Finally, the witness could not recall
Wynn saying the word terminate but
denied him using the word fire— “I think
I would remember that.” [Westbrook and
Pascal also testified as did Steve
Wynn.]
Steven Wynn testified he began by
informing the listening dealers that he
understood they had come to work for
[the hotel] expecting that tips would be
divided in a certain way and that now,
as the procedure had been changed, they
were “angry” and “frustrated.”
Continuing, he stated that,
historically, the casino “bosses” had
earned more than the dealers but with,
the advent of his three “mega-resorts,”
the dealers tips had become
“astronomically large” to the point they
now earned more than the supervisors. He
told the dealers that [the hotel’s] team
leads were upset at the disparity in
earnings between themselves and the
dealers and, as they worked side-byside
with the dealers in serving customers,
at their lack of participation in the
dealers’ tips pool.
In these circumstances, according to
Wynn, [the hotel] believed it was
rectifying a bad situation and felt it
had made the “right” decision. According
to Wynn, he next dealt with the rumors,
which had been circulating amongst the
dealers. He told them they could be as
angry as they wanted, but “nobody is
getting fired. I have never been firing
anybody except for severe cause. My
reputation has been that the hardest
place to get fired is ...at one of my
hotels. And that’s been true for forty
years here... You could put an army of
people in this room. And I said nobody
is getting fired. This is a ridiculous
rumor” unless “...somebody takes this up
on the floor and disrupts the business
at the table.” (According to Wynn, he
meant that “I didn’t want people
criticizing the company to the
customers,” which
act, he told the dealers, was
“inappropriate” behavior.)
Wynn next told the dealers a second
ridiculous rumor was that [the hotel]
intended to take away all of their tips.
He said that he could have given the
team leads and the box people full
shares in the tip pool but had not, and
“the system that we had adopted was
deliberately designed to minimize the
impact on the dealers.” Then, Wynn
testified, he discussed a third rumor—
that a union can change everything. He
said a company is at a disadvantage when
confronted by union organizing because a
“union and [[its]] friends call people
at home” and “intimidate” them during
unrecorded conversations; while an
employer speaks “...on the record
...publicly.”
He added that it would be false for
anyone to say a union could force [the
hotel] to change a policy, which is a
sound business practice. Rather, “I said
the only thing that a union can do to
management is to deprive us of your
employment. That is to say they can call
you off the job in a strike.” Wynn told
the dealers that a strike would be “an
outrageous and terrible response” and
“heartbreaking” from his point of view
as they would be trading marching on the
sidewalk for earning more in tips than
dealers at any other hotel/casino in Las
Vegas. Moreover, he told the dealers, if
they did strike, “...I would be forced
to replace and see to it that if dealers
weren’t at the table other dealers were
at the table.
And that means replacement.” During
cross-examination, asked if he told the
employees that the only leverage a union
has is a strike, Wynn embellished and
altered his direct examination
testimony, stating “the only leverage
that the union has ultimately, if they
believe one thing and we believe
another, we reach what’s known as a
[[good faith impasse]] ...And at the end
of that impasse, the Union can walk away
...they can deprive us of your labor.
Those were the words I used. That’s how
I expressed myself.” He then related to
the employees what had occurred at the
Golden Nugget Hotel to the striking
valet parking employees, and told the
dealers “So if they walked off the job,
we would be in the same position we were
at the Golden Nugget to do permanent
replacements.
And that’s a permanent replacement instigated and made necessary by an action of the union in calling out the employees.” Wynn then concluded his remarks, saying the employees’ future and his were tied to [the hotel’s] facility, they were all doing better than dealers at any other casino, and they should all settle down. According to Wynn, at this point, he solicited questions and comments from the dealers, and “one fella” complained about [the hotel’s] “shopping” system, saying he did not need a “shopper” (...[The hotel] utilizes a socalled shopping service to perform quarterly performance evaluations for each its approximately 600 table games dealers.) telling him how he was doing.
Wynn replied, saying what the employee
thought was not “persuasive” and
everyone was treated the same by the
shoppers. Then, pointing to Cynthia
Fields sitting at a counsel table, Wynn
testified, “this gal” spoke and lectured
to him that her income had been impacted
to the point “...she had to sell one of
her three homes. Apparently [[she was in
the real estate business]]. And I
thought that was an incredible statement
because the ...program had only been in
existence for a few weeks... She was a
little teary... Well, I didn’t
understand ...and I thought that was an
incredible statement. ...I said I’m
sorry that that’s happened, but it
doesn’t make much sense to me.” (Wynn
added that another woman also seemed to
be teary.
Asked what he might have said to make the women cry, Wynn said “the reason they were teary is because I made the change in the program. They came in to the room teary in my view... I’m certain it wasn’t anything that I said...” Wynn was unable to recall saying to Fields that, if $15,000 is an issue for you, you have bigger problems, and noted that her comment was “inherently unbelievable” as the new policy on tips had been in effect for just a month.)
Finally, Wynn conceded banging his fist on the table (“Yes... that’s the way I speak. I tend to be an emphatic person and a little historical" sic]) and specifically denied saying that once employees picket, they will be automatically terminated (“absolutely not” and “...not only did I not say that, why would I when I knew that not to be true?”) (Answering a question from me, Wynn said he was well aware of the legal distinction between firing and permanently replacing a striking employee. “Of course, I know that, your honor, and that’s why I would never make such a ridiculous statement.”) or shouting at the employees. [up]


